Very shortly after I started PooterGeek, I posted a link to an article in The Independent, in the days when that newspaper was still in possession of some of its marbles. It described the abuse an American couple received in a British supermarket queue from a British family, abuse based solely on that couple’s being American. It attracted one of the first emails this site ever received. It was from an American living in London—a neo-hippie, anti-war Californian as it happens—in which she described her own similar experiences since 11Sep01.
This sounds like a ‘Blog cliché, but I recently upset a number of people at a posh dinner when, openly and at length, I objected to a series of casually anti-American remarks made by my fellow British guests. Their tone and content was exactly—and I mean exactly—that of racist remarks about blacks made by white people to each other when they believe they are in the company of sympathetic whites. Given my family background I am very familiar with that tone. Interrupting its chorus with a note of righteousness is a serious social crime.
Yesterday, Claire wrote asking for some tales of such anti-American bigotry and I pointed her at that old, now subscription-only Independent article; today, Judith pointed us both at this. It’s disgusting, but it’s not surprising.
Please make a resolution never to let this kind of poison go unchallenged. There is a manifestation of British snobbery that morphs unbroken into racism, anti-Americanism, and anti-Semitism. It rises up like a stink from the national detestation of “vulgarity”, of conspicuous consumption, of openly expressed brotherly feeling. Perhaps it is so intense and bitter because Britons hate themselves for enjoying the popular songs and movies that those white, black and Jewish Americans write, perform and produce; those calorific fried chicken and grilled burger bars they’ve dotted British high streets with; the “bling” and “flash” that have seduced them for decade after decade in one form or another.
There is a difference between coercion and seduction; it’s a difference that some of the seduced wish they could deny the morning after. They’re “overpaid, oversexed and over here”, they used to say of US GIs. Thank God Americans did come over here and that they keep coming, or this place would have become, at best, a cultural and economic morgue, at worst, a death camp.
I have to say I was completely shocked by Carol Gould’s article. Surely this isn’t commonplace in the UK? If it is, I am ashamed
of my country.
My experience is of “casually anti-American remarks” being very
common these days. People are genuinely shocked if you question their
position (i.e. what evidence do you have etc) and their jaws hit the floor if you suggest that the Bush foreign policy might be an effective one.
At a recent lunch I had to administer smelling salts to the other diners when I stated that I would vote for Bush if I was an American.
My experience also is that most people here have a view of history and politics that is very selective and usually short on facts. This is most obvious when discussing the history and politics of Israel.
In fact, there seems to be an inverse relationship between how “liberal” people are, and how shaky they are on the facts of history.
Personally, I think you have to distinguish between knee-jerk anti-american remarks (which I never hear, then again, I’m not American although I live with one) and knee-jerk anti-Bush/anti-US isolationist-in-all-the-wrong-areas foreign policy remarks, which I’ve been known to make and probably still utter from time to time.
Now I’m off to slag off Michael Jackson for restricting freedom of speech.
Hello, Badly Dubbed Boy. Would yours be the UK ‘Blog where someone with the suitably British moniker “Pisser” posted
“You could be like a horrid, tacky American and wear one of those t-shirts that has a tux printed on it.”
at 09:51hrs yesterday morning? It’s still there this lunchtime, unchallenged.
I’ve got some thoughts here. Concisely, I suspect Helen Gould is grossly exaggerating, both on the grounds that she’s writing in half-crazy Frontpagemag, and since none of the Americans and Jewish-Americans I know in the UK have ever reported anything even at 1/10 of the level she describes, even when asked. Possibly she’s walking around wearing a “Bush/Cheney 04” badge…
I’m also sceptical that it counts as racist to mock Middle Americans for their not-always-graceful attire – it seems more on a level with chav-bashing, which is perhaps morally questionable, but hardly racism (or avoided round these parts…
Err, Carol Gould, even. I used to know someone called Helen Gould, who isn’t American, and as far as I know doesn’t write for Frontpagemag.
Any such abuse directed at Americans is unforgivable, but if FrontPageMag were to carry a story saying that Paris is the capital of France, I’d rush to check my atlas, just to make sure.
I’m an American who lived in the UK for 3 years and experienced what I’d describe as anti-Americanism twice: once in 1993 from a Sloanie and once in 1997 from what could only be described as a Marxist fundamentalist. There was also one anti-American Briton, generic leftist, that I met outside of the UK but again this was before Dubya.
Pootergeek, you may read the Frontpage article as the unvarnished truth, but as someone who lives in London, commutes 2hr per day and works in a Jewish area, it reads mighty fishily.
Gould begins by equating the abuse with being American. Towards the end of the article, she writes that she is getting grief for her strident views on Israel. Gould would like the reader to understand that she could be any American, or at the very least, any Jewish American. She especially hammers on the theme that London is turning into some latterday Nazi Germany.
Perhaps she has been very unlucky. Perhaps she has encountered a racist trend that ordinary people like me in London simply miss by virtue of not being Jewish/American. Perhaps she has encountered a new breed of Londoner – the sort who whoop and cheer with overt Anti-Americanism rather than cough and look the other way when something embarrassing happens on public transport.
Or perhaps she is discovering that, as anywhere on earth, vigorously defending political standpoints that are both emotive and widely disagreed with makes her unpopular. She has no hesitation in indulging in casual racism herself – the expulsion of Jews in 1290 apparently feeds modern day views, as if Britons have some genetic or cultural pre-disposition to racism.
I won’t argue with the fact that many of my fellow Americans dress tackily, even horribly. What I can’t understand, and refuse to accept, is the idea of the Brits, of all people, assuming the role of Fashion Police. I live in a very large metropolitan area; I’ve met my fair share of Albion’s inhabitants. Can’t say any of them struck me as particularly stylish. Or thin, or fit, or cultured. Maybe only the tacky Brits go abroad? All the stylin ones stay home?
Food, fashion, and f***king – three subjects to which the French should confine their advice, three subjects on which the Brits should refrain from ever commenting.
Please spare me the “Cool Britannia” protests. I live in an area that suffers, and will always suffer, from unfair negative stereotyping and I’m not sympathetic.
(My sentiments are serious, but my tongue is firmly in cheek.)
You want to go to the French for fashion advice? Fair enough if you stick to Paris, but the shell suit is alive and well in the suburbs and the countryside.
Ditto food. While Britain is no gastronomic mecca, its reputation as the European Centre of Excellence for Blandness is thoroughly undeserved.
And we don’t have bad teeth either. Honest.
What’s a shell suit?
Long ago, when a British guy professed amazement that I, a native of Texas, was quite knowledgable about British history, I just smiled, murmured “nice teeth,” changed the subject and thought myself oh so clever. But you’re right – nowadays most British folk under 40 or so have perfectly acceptable teeth. And with age I’ve grown less defensive, less inclined to answer insult with insult. I’ve also decided, like Damian, that the automatic and seemingly irresistable urge to Yankee bash has more to do with the basher’s self image, self esteem, insecurity, whatever, than anything else. (Unless one is bashing the French. That’s just fun.) Now I just yawn, allow my attention to noticably wander, or just walk off while the ranter is still yammering.
It helps that I’m now the mother of a toddler. Senseless fits of temper don’t move me like they used to – I’m a veritable damn model of patience and forebearance.
What’s a shell suit?
A sweatsuit.
America and Americans have become a convenient scapegoat for social ills that we (whichever country you may be from) are loathe to confront. There´s a reason they call it the “coalition of the willing” after all. As with any prejudice, there is a scant grain of (usually tangential) truth, and 99.9% Grade-A crap.
I must disclose however, that I am biased about sweeping generalizations and national stereotypes. Since being Filipina, it has often been assumed that I am either a maid, a prostitute or a mail order bride. This does not make for very entertaining experiences at pubs and bars in the both sides of the Atlantic.
john b,
I realise this wasn’t the thrust of your comment, but, for most people who aren’t Rupert Murdoch, being American is not usually a lifestyle choice. Being a chav is. The latter is certainly not an ethnic or national status. The definition of “chav” that I linked to in the post to which you refer distinguishes chavs by their “ignorance, fecklessness, mindless violence and bad taste”, not by their birth. It gets harder to believe every day, but no one comes into this world wearing a Burberry baseball cap. (It’s not just about class either. There are plenty of rich chavs—and even a few posh ones.) The distinction between being and doing is a crucial one for me. For example, I want to be free to defend Jews from anti-Semitism, but I also want to be free to express my disgust with the practice of male circumcision.
You wrote:
“I’m also sceptical that it counts as racist to mock Middle Americans for their not-always-graceful attire”
That it was so easy for me to find a remark referring to Americans (there was no qualification in the original) as “horrid” in a five-minute lunchtime visit to a random British ‘Blog says a lot. Perhaps I am just more sensitive to this stuff—try this substitution:
“You could be like a horrid, tacky African…”
and see how it sounds. The USA is a rich and powerful country. In the past it might have been easier for me to be more relaxed about what people say about Americans here; it would have been far more likely to have been said in a spirit of friendly rivalry, but something has changed in the past few years, much for the worse.
A few commenters have expressed skepticism with the article I linked to. (It’s probably worth my knowing that Frontpage Magazine is not universally trusted.) The account in The Independent that I can’t link to described an incident at least as bad if not worse. I often hear deeply offensive things being said about Americans in this country, even in “educated” company, and such slurs appear commonly in the broadsheet press too. It’s almost more shocking than stories of anti-Americanism to hear dismissions of their accuracy or importance from others.
In 1999 I was passing through a lab in London where two young, European post-doctoral scientists were (I thought) lightly discussing “Dana International”‘s winning the Eurovision song-contest the previous year. The two scientists had only met that month and came respectively from an eastern European and a northern European country—both highly developed nations. The Eastern European said that Dana had only won because she was a Jew. Her companion chimed in with how that was just like the way the Jews had always helped each other in science too. After they had gone I asked an British co-worker if I had heard what I thought I’d heard. She said she didn’t want to talk about it.
It’s pretty bad being told to “lighten up” about racism directed against you personally. In some ways it’s worse having people deny or diminish discrimination you have witnessed against others. Even if our American guest is “exaggerating” her experiences or has “brought them upon herself” by “wearing a ‘Bush/Cheney 04’ badge”—God forbid!—there’s a problem here. I see it; other people see it; I wish more would.
But I thought it was all my fault! At least, that’s what the Dems keep telling me…
Thanks again, Damian.
#3 – the comments by Pisser are from Pisser, who is an American actress in Los Angeles. http://www.thepissedkitty.com – you should have clicked on her URL 😉
There *are* horrid tacky Americans. There are also wonderful fantastic ones. Same as there are horrible tacky Brits. Stating that fact does not mean I think that *all* Brits/Americans are horrible and tacky.
Okay, Badly Dubbed Boy, you win. I am more sensitive to these things. Kind of fits with the title of my original post, though…
Well, it’s not exactly a battle, is it? The trouble with discussions like this is that it’s generally incompatible with having a risque sense of humour, or the vagarities and the greyness of modern life. Not everything is black and white.
Bringing colour into it now, are we? I’ll have you barred.
😉
(I bothered to read the FrontPage article now, fired off without it at first…)
I have often considered the intellectual worth of studying media institutions in Europe, and just how far many have strayed back into the ’30’s realm of pure propaganda. The Guardian, Le Monde, Der Speigel, Paris Match, etc. I struggle to think of a single one that dispassionately reports the level facts, even the venerable Beeb. Unfortunately, I am not a psychology buff or a communications expert, and wouldn’t have the time or expertise in any event. However, I am certain that a constant barrage of slanted “reporting” typically results in slanted thinking, such is the malleability of the human mind. And really, just how far is that from deliberate brainwashing?
The really scary thing (for me personally) is that the big 3 US networks seem to want the same evolution over here. News and implication dictated and pre-determined, not delivered undigested. The arrogance and blindness of groupthink never ceases to amaze. Man’s natural state is the despot/monarch in total control; these media giants desperately want that control, and have been up to some very dangerous tricks lately. Representative democracy is merely an abberation, yet one that should be guarded jealously. Bravo for taking your stand.
I had a long and boring reply prepared, but the exchange re BDB’s comment kinda says it all.
I absolutely agree that anyone who acts like the people Ms Gould describes towards *anyone* deserves to be kicked and ostracised from polite company, and that’s true irrespective of what actually happened in her case.
But all or nearly the Yank-bashing I’ve encountered is either the kind of political-centric bashing that can easily be countered with ‘I didn’t vote for Bush and don’t support his policies’, or good-natured stereotype-based humour as with BDB and his friend.
(and if a given American *did* vote for Bush and does support his policies, then slating them for that is like slating a UKIP voter for his party’s platform. It isn’t about racism – at the absolute worst it’s about intolerance of non-Guardian-liberal political views).
I’m not so sure about that john. My own uncle (by marriage) is professor of psychology from London, and we damn near got into a shouting match over breakfast during the UN
fiascodebate leading up to Iraq. Purely political science and ideological, nothing to do with jews or fashion or anything of the sort. I hesitate to think what would have been said if we weren’t family, but I will not tolerate abuse of any sort, and that was what I was receiving on the basis of where I was born. I had never before been called stupid by someone I respected. Drew quite a few ugly looks from the others in the restaurant, and I thought I was going to end up in the unusual position of defending him from some of them.“Bashing” individuals for their country of origin (or any other unchosen identifier) is simply not rational. Saying that it can “be passed off” with a few stereotypical jokes and (honest or not) disavowments is simply passing the buck. It strikes me as a soft reprise of the Dixiecrats defending “separate but equal” as non-detrimental.
My comment above has elicited commentary elsewhere in the blogosphere. For the sake of anyone whose reading and comprehension skills are limited, let me spell out that it expressed two (2) propositions.
(1) That any abuse such as discussed by Damian is unforgivable.
(2) That FrontPage magazine is an extremely unreliable source of information.
I doubt that any sane and reasonable person would – if properly informed – object to either proposition.
Fair enough Chris, but you’ll have come across anti-American comments yourself.
It’s a staple of conversation in the building I work in, along with historically ignorant comments on Israel. (The new South Africa don’t you know, Jews are just doing what the Nazis did, etc).
Whereas, reality-based discussion of Al Qaeda or Islamic fundamentalism is frowned upon, unless of course you can blame it on the US or link it to our “imperialist” attitudes to the Middle East and our desire to suck at the nipple of oil producing regimes.
“They had it coming”, don’t you know?
From a comment I posted at john b’s site at the end of August, in protest at an anti-American remark of his:
I lived in the US for quite a long time and am highly sensitised to the way making ignorant, snide remarks about Americans functions as a kind of self-congratulatory bonding ritual among many of my socio-economic peers in Britain and Europe. (Scott Burgess is very good on this sort of thing.) What makes it even worse is the hypocrisy: the people in question are outraged at any suggestion of prejudice or stereotyping in literally any other context. Case in point: Guardian feature where people write in with questions about curious everyday phenomena (why does water go the other way down the plughole in the southern hemisphere etc). Reader’s question: “Is there a reliable way of telling the difference between Americans and Canadians? I don’t want to take an instant dislike to the wrong person.” Now substitute “Pakistani” and “Indian” for “American” and “Canadian.” Can anyone doubt that Rusbridger would be getting death threats? From white people?
I’m a fairly frequent visitor to London and just returned from four days there, where I hung out with quite a few Guardian and Independent-readers, some of them avowedly Marxist. None of them had any problem with me as an American, a Jew or a Zionist – we had some lively arguments, certainly, but none of them degenerated to personal abuse, anti-semitism or “Israel is a pirate state” rhetoric. I’ve never encountered that kind of crap in the UK, although I’m sure it exists; there are idiots everywhere. The reception of Americans in London probably has a great deal to do with the particular people they meet.
Hi, Pooter.
I’m just here to vouch that while Badly Dubbed Boy is a Chinese-Welshman who loves America, Americans, and lesbians, *I* am a horrid, tacky American who hates rude people in general 😉
Being terribly unsophisticated and not at all well-traveled, I was just making an uneducated guess. I am also extremely irritable, and smelly.
But good points, all.
Does she exaggerate?
About a year ago I linked to a disturbing account by Carol Gould (a Jewish American living in London) of the furious hatred aimed at…
A tsunami of anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism?
The pro-war British blogs seem to be linking to and discussing an article in David Horowitz’s FrontPage Magazine which alleges that the UK is in the grip of a frightening epidemic of anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism. In the words of one…
Pootergeek,
I think it is too easy to almost dogmatically align anti-American feeling and sentiment as a form of racial or xenophobic intolerance, but when faced with what is essentially a latter day form of cultural imperialism [democracy at all costs, blind support of Israel, refusal to sign global environment treaties, having and excersising the power to enter wars unsupported which, like it or not, effect the rest of the world], many people feel helpless and angry and, not even being allowed to protest Bush properly when he comes to the country, direct ther wrath at the next best thing; American People.
As appears to be the prevalent opinion here, this is still quite rare. Most people acknowledge that at least half the American people are ‘on-side’ as it were, and are smart or at least savvy enough to distinguish between poltics & people.
The comments to which you refer need to be contextualised – who has said them, why and what their agenda is. FrontPage may be recommended reading to some, but if I go off spouting bollocks I heard on Al-Jazeera about Muslims living in a climate of abuse and fear in the UK, then you’d rightly denounce me as fruitcake.
Easy,
R
In the interests of balance, it would be nice to see just the odd piece denouncing the near-constant slurry of anti-French racism that is (one side of) US political discourse. Or indeed stories of the abuse which French nationals receive in the US…
Message for Jimmy Doyle: I would be very grateful if you would provide a link to the Scott Burgess you mention as “very good on this sort of thing.” (I’m a writer who is looking at this issue, and wonder what this Burgess fellow has to say.) Thank you!
Claire, Scott Burgess. He’s on holiday, some might say ‘vacation’, but that’s derived from the French vacance, so I wouldn’t. While he’s away others are minding the store. Why not read him starting in January?
[…] Never put off blogging something, or Matthew Turner will beat you to it ! Last year Carol Gould wrote a piece about an alleged epidemic of anti-Americanism in Britain and the some of the decent left linked to it enthusiastically (one describing the piece as a breath of fresh air ). When I dared to suggest that it was a load of old tosh, the decents cried foul . Will they, I wonder, continue to accord heroine status to Ms. Gould when they read her latest hilarious effort . Some choice exerpts: Last week was the culmination of that poignant fortnight in which people all over the world wear a poppy in the lead-up to Remembrance Day. Nothing is more dramatic than seeing the sea of red flowers in the lapels of British men and women as they make their way to the office in the early-morning rush hour. … On British television, every presenter and anchor wears a poppy. In keeping with the motto of the British Legion—“Wear your poppy with pride”—every shopkeeper, publican, hotel manager and cabbie wears a poppy…. It was therefore all the more astonishing last week when I took a long walk along Edgware Road, the most densely Muslim section of London, and discovered that not one person was wearing a poppy. […]
I wish I could understand things better , I am a american woman who is happyly married almost became a Nun . recently i had spoken with a friend who just married a woman from the Phillipines . He told me how much he hated American women and how they all need to jump off a clift . I told him why are you friends with me and my husband then. and he told me it was couse i seem to listen well. now i need advice this man is saying how america needs to rid of all american woman and be pupulated with only filipina women and some of the things he says are desturbing yes i agree we need better family value and stuff but some of the stuff that he says scares me. I am only 28 this man is 48 and is a friend of the family . Should i no longer be friends with him ? becouse of the things he is saying about American women ? I don’t know what to do all i know is i’m scared and confused